As an autistic African American who often feels colder when everyone is screaming how hot is it- I’m trying to understand this article cause it’s fascinating yet very dense.
I have my gene sequencing and such and am familiar with the genes mentioned but it’s still so much.
My husband (who is autistic and white) and I are always on opposite ends of the opinion of temperature.
So I’m going to have him help me sift through this article to understand it to apply it to us.
So much valuable info! I started noticing gray hair in my mid-20s. My dad always says our family is known for premature graying. We live at a very high altitude—3,600 meters above sea level. Like most of the world, our winters have become milder, and summers are getting too hot. We also live in modern houses where we keep it warm throughout the 3-4 winter months. We turn on the heater in our cars and wear layers of clothing. This might explain the premature graying in our family.
My only issue with this experiment is that we don’t have AC in our houses because summers here have traditionally been cool. Also, we don’t have a sauna at home, so even if I try it at a salon, I won’t be able to control the temperature in my house. Still, I’m looking forward to reading about everyone’s experiences!
Another outstanding article! I find a lot of what you write about personally very useful. I am homozygous for COMT V158M and H62H, and heterozygous for P199P, so anything to help speed up COMT is much appreciated. If I am reading this correctly, it might be possible that a decrease in resting body temperature could help my slow COMT operate more efficiently - do I have that right? If so, this would be a big help.
This is interesting, I’ve been using sauna now for greater than 5 years 4-5 x per week at 150-180 F. I’m graying at 40 and noticed a lower base temperature especially in winter. From others I thought higher temp was associated with higher metabolic rate?
Wonder why the ability of Finns to reproduce hasn’t been affected despite frequent and prolonged high temperature sauna bathing with no ice packs ever touching anyone’s testicles? Is this the triumph of empirical evidence over theory?
There are no Finns using ice packs in the sauna. Sauna is a Finnish word and an age-old Finnish custom, and no-one would ever think to do such a thing. You wear nothing in the sauna,
and certainly not an ice pack around your testicles. If sauna bathing affected testicular function adversely the Finnish birth rate would be a lot lower than that of the surrounding countries. You would have to pay Finnish men quite handsomely to participate in a study where they had to do something as ridiculous as that.
I know the US is a very young nation, without deep and old unifying traditions, but sometimes Americans would do well to look to the origins of phenomena and understand that there’s a lot of wisdom in traditional ways of life — including how sauna bathing has been done for eons in the country of it’s origin.
I suppose it is possible there is a very long adaptation time where the three-month effect is normalized.
I am not any expert on sauna history, so I am not sure if, say, traditions around this have changed or some traditions have been forgotten even by Finns.
I also don’t know anything about the birth rate in Finns.
However, if starting sauna newly is going to have the three month effect shown in the study and someone wants to have kids on any medium term horizon and nothing is known about the duration needed to recover the sperm count without sauna cessation, it seems prudent to do the ice.
The one question I would have is if the stimulus is actually insufficient in that study. It was a few times a week and the maximal adaptation of lower temperature occurs with 2 hours a day.
Traditionally, the way sauna is used is to go back and forth a few times, or at least once, between a very high heat and cooling off with cold water, in the snow, or by jumping into a lake, depending on availability of options. This may have a mitigating effect, but that’s purely hypothetical. It may be one of those cultural practices that are lost during wide adaptation of a foreign practice without understanding or adoption of the cultural practices associated with it.
Another possibility is that heat may decrease sperm count, which would have mattered a lot less historically, before the current-day precipitous fall of sperm counts worldwide, but may now matter more. Lastly, sperm count may temporarily decrease, but the open question is whether motility is affected negatively. If not, fertility may not be affected as much as one might expect.
All in all, somehow Finns have managed to use sauna from the cradle to the grave (literally; babies were often born in the (cold) sauna, mothers being their babies along with them into the sauna, after death, the bodies of the deceased were washed and cared for in the sauna, as it was the cleanest place in an agricultural society) without disappearing from the face of the earth. Modern-day dropping birth rates, especially after the covid shots, may pose a bigger threat…
Unfortunately none that I would have read and could therefore recommend. My familiarity is purely practical and empirical, having grown up in the tradition.
As an aside, one aspect that is often missed during the export of the practice is the reverence with which Finns relate to the sauna. While men often, when they bathe together, show off by bathing in extremely high heat, it is also a place for silence, relaxation, emotional (never physical, in a sexual sense) intimacy. There is a moving documentary about this called Steam of Life.
Are we generally considering a lower average basal body temperature to be a good thing? It seems like it has many benefits. I'm just curious about how to think about body temperature in relation to metabolic rate. And the positives or negatives associated with that.
It seems like having a higher metabolic rate is, at the very least, convenient for staying leaner more easily. Doesn't a higher metabolic rate correlate with a higher body temperature?
Would having a lower body temperature induced by adaptation to heat have a different effect on "things" compared to having a lower body temperature that was more based on a lower metabolic rate?
I’m thinking calorie restriction, which has been shown to increase longevity in many species, slows metabolism and this reduces the oxidation (free radicals) that occur whenever calories are metabolized.
I answered my question regarding lower temperature caused by this protocol and hypothyroidism. As you suggest, "Thus, the lower body heat that occurs with the sauna hard and stay cool protocol is driven not by decreased energy metabolism, but rather by improved removal of heat from the body." Also, the heat sauna promotes detoxification and drainage, which would improve carbohydrate respiration if not overly stressful.
Question: When you say, "has a good chance of being completely counter-balanced by fat oxidation over the course of long-term adaptation," how exactly would this occur, and wouldn't this be problematic (i.e., significantly reduce ATP)?
Related: You may be aware that sea otters make use of "leaky" mitochondria for warmth.
What about the use of "non-traditional saunas", that don’t use steam? I have a sauna that uses far-infrared heat-Unlike conventional saunas that rely on heating the air around you, infrared saunas infrared waves that directly warms your body, similar to how the sun naturally warms your skin, far infrared has proven to be the most beneficial and safest for sauna therapy. Traditional saunas operate at extremely high temperatures between 150°F to 195+°F, making them uncomfortable for many users. In contrast, far infrared saunas deliver therapeutic benefits at much more comfortable temperatures of 100°F to 158°F. This fundamental difference creates several advantages-better heat tolerance for longer sessions, enhanced therapeutic benefits, more efficient body warming and improved breathing comfort. I’ve experienced several health benefits from this type of sauna use just in a couple of months
I have a far infrared sauna. I think it is beneficial as a source of far infrared to replace not having fire. But I do not think it will replicate the effect described here which is a function of hot air and humidity.
I have a SaunaSpace with 8 new Thermalights that replicate the Sun’s frequencies, and I sweat quickly and profusely. As soon as I open the door, I can feel the humidity escaping. So I think it’s effective.
Yes I think it can if it traps the hot air and humidity and you stay in long enough. I have a relax sauna which is far and doesn't trap the heat or humidity.
Chris can you tell us more about what you implemented for the client who had been damaged by ssri. He was clearly suffering a prolonged withdrawal syndrome. I know everyone is unique in their bottlenecks however these recoveries are so rare that more information would be incredible.
Masterjohn’s weaving of genetics, temperature physiology, and nutrient biochemistry is nothing short of wild. I love how he flips the sauna narrative on its head: instead of just detox woo, it becomes a precision metabolic tool to counter thermolabile gene variants. "Sauna hard, stay cool" is such a counterintuitive protocol—it feels like biohacker folklore, but he grounds it in some solid mechanistic logic and surprising studies.
Also loved the nuance on heat shock proteins being an acute response—not the long-term fix we often assume. That’s a huge insight. And the whole section about the Saami vs. lab studies shows how most cold plunge routines are basically play-pretend compared to the real thing.
Only critique: dense as hell. You really need to want to follow the thread. But if you do? Totally worth it.
Curious what happens if someone stacks this with mitochondrial support—like CoQ10, creatine, carnitine, etc.—or experiments with cyclical copper for TYR. Lots of directions to explore.
Very relevant and helpful, thank you. Do I understand correctly (according to Ray Peat) that our enzymes can only function within a narrow temperature range? Or does this adapt too? And that a low temperature signifies hypothyroidism (or ineffectiveness of thyroid hormones on cellular receptors due to stress/RT3)?
I'm hypothyroid and just went through a winter without heat in our home. I wore wear vests, socks, and hats to avoid catching cold. Even though, when entering a public building, I feel warmer than others, I start sneezing within a couple minutes whenever I remove my hat or go without 1-2 pairs of wool socks, which tells me my heat distribution has shifted. Once an acupuncturist pulled some of the energy out of my core to help "balance" the energy, and I caught cold the next day. So much for balance!
Now that it's spring, I'm up to 2-3 pairs of wool socks and two hats and am getting sick more easily. I often shine a red light (incandescent) on my chest to heat up enough.
This article has me wondering about biohackers migrating south to warmer climates such as Yucatan and Costa Rica, Dr. Leland Stillman in Tampa, his colleague Jim Laird in Nicaragua, and Jack Kruse in El Salvador. Has this research caused you to reconsider your decision to move to Miami? If not, why not? (This is not a criticism, but I am now thinking it will be better for me to stay north rather than to spend more time in the tropics.) As usual, I love reading your findings!
As an autistic African American who often feels colder when everyone is screaming how hot is it- I’m trying to understand this article cause it’s fascinating yet very dense.
I have my gene sequencing and such and am familiar with the genes mentioned but it’s still so much.
My husband (who is autistic and white) and I are always on opposite ends of the opinion of temperature.
So I’m going to have him help me sift through this article to understand it to apply it to us.
Thanks for sharing.
Fascinating article. It will take some time to digest but you’ve brought up so many things that pertain to me.
So much valuable info! I started noticing gray hair in my mid-20s. My dad always says our family is known for premature graying. We live at a very high altitude—3,600 meters above sea level. Like most of the world, our winters have become milder, and summers are getting too hot. We also live in modern houses where we keep it warm throughout the 3-4 winter months. We turn on the heater in our cars and wear layers of clothing. This might explain the premature graying in our family.
My only issue with this experiment is that we don’t have AC in our houses because summers here have traditionally been cool. Also, we don’t have a sauna at home, so even if I try it at a salon, I won’t be able to control the temperature in my house. Still, I’m looking forward to reading about everyone’s experiences!
Thanks for summarizing this insightful but complex article into the short phrase “Sauna Hard and Stay Cool”. So easy to keep in mind.
Thanks! Will read!
Another outstanding article! I find a lot of what you write about personally very useful. I am homozygous for COMT V158M and H62H, and heterozygous for P199P, so anything to help speed up COMT is much appreciated. If I am reading this correctly, it might be possible that a decrease in resting body temperature could help my slow COMT operate more efficiently - do I have that right? If so, this would be a big help.
Yes that’s right. But you want to try it with the methods here and not by something that would decrease your metabolic rate.
This is interesting, I’ve been using sauna now for greater than 5 years 4-5 x per week at 150-180 F. I’m graying at 40 and noticed a lower base temperature especially in winter. From others I thought higher temp was associated with higher metabolic rate?
This is about heat leaving the body, not heat failing to be produced by the body.
Wonder why the ability of Finns to reproduce hasn’t been affected despite frequent and prolonged high temperature sauna bathing with no ice packs ever touching anyone’s testicles? Is this the triumph of empirical evidence over theory?
Do we know that it hasn’t been affected? Do we have an RCT comparing reproduction of Finns with ice packs to that of those who don’t use them?
There are no Finns using ice packs in the sauna. Sauna is a Finnish word and an age-old Finnish custom, and no-one would ever think to do such a thing. You wear nothing in the sauna,
and certainly not an ice pack around your testicles. If sauna bathing affected testicular function adversely the Finnish birth rate would be a lot lower than that of the surrounding countries. You would have to pay Finnish men quite handsomely to participate in a study where they had to do something as ridiculous as that.
I know the US is a very young nation, without deep and old unifying traditions, but sometimes Americans would do well to look to the origins of phenomena and understand that there’s a lot of wisdom in traditional ways of life — including how sauna bathing has been done for eons in the country of it’s origin.
I suppose it is possible there is a very long adaptation time where the three-month effect is normalized.
I am not any expert on sauna history, so I am not sure if, say, traditions around this have changed or some traditions have been forgotten even by Finns.
I also don’t know anything about the birth rate in Finns.
However, if starting sauna newly is going to have the three month effect shown in the study and someone wants to have kids on any medium term horizon and nothing is known about the duration needed to recover the sperm count without sauna cessation, it seems prudent to do the ice.
The one question I would have is if the stimulus is actually insufficient in that study. It was a few times a week and the maximal adaptation of lower temperature occurs with 2 hours a day.
Traditionally, the way sauna is used is to go back and forth a few times, or at least once, between a very high heat and cooling off with cold water, in the snow, or by jumping into a lake, depending on availability of options. This may have a mitigating effect, but that’s purely hypothetical. It may be one of those cultural practices that are lost during wide adaptation of a foreign practice without understanding or adoption of the cultural practices associated with it.
Another possibility is that heat may decrease sperm count, which would have mattered a lot less historically, before the current-day precipitous fall of sperm counts worldwide, but may now matter more. Lastly, sperm count may temporarily decrease, but the open question is whether motility is affected negatively. If not, fertility may not be affected as much as one might expect.
All in all, somehow Finns have managed to use sauna from the cradle to the grave (literally; babies were often born in the (cold) sauna, mothers being their babies along with them into the sauna, after death, the bodies of the deceased were washed and cared for in the sauna, as it was the cleanest place in an agricultural society) without disappearing from the face of the earth. Modern-day dropping birth rates, especially after the covid shots, may pose a bigger threat…
Lots of unanswered questions, so I think it is still prudent for the new sauna adopter on this background of uncertainty to adopt the ice practice.
Is there a book you'd recommend on the history of sauna that covers this in sufficient detail?
Unfortunately none that I would have read and could therefore recommend. My familiarity is purely practical and empirical, having grown up in the tradition.
As an aside, one aspect that is often missed during the export of the practice is the reverence with which Finns relate to the sauna. While men often, when they bathe together, show off by bathing in extremely high heat, it is also a place for silence, relaxation, emotional (never physical, in a sexual sense) intimacy. There is a moving documentary about this called Steam of Life.
Are we generally considering a lower average basal body temperature to be a good thing? It seems like it has many benefits. I'm just curious about how to think about body temperature in relation to metabolic rate. And the positives or negatives associated with that.
It seems like having a higher metabolic rate is, at the very least, convenient for staying leaner more easily. Doesn't a higher metabolic rate correlate with a higher body temperature?
Would having a lower body temperature induced by adaptation to heat have a different effect on "things" compared to having a lower body temperature that was more based on a lower metabolic rate?
I’m thinking calorie restriction, which has been shown to increase longevity in many species, slows metabolism and this reduces the oxidation (free radicals) that occur whenever calories are metabolized.
I answered my question regarding lower temperature caused by this protocol and hypothyroidism. As you suggest, "Thus, the lower body heat that occurs with the sauna hard and stay cool protocol is driven not by decreased energy metabolism, but rather by improved removal of heat from the body." Also, the heat sauna promotes detoxification and drainage, which would improve carbohydrate respiration if not overly stressful.
Question: When you say, "has a good chance of being completely counter-balanced by fat oxidation over the course of long-term adaptation," how exactly would this occur, and wouldn't this be problematic (i.e., significantly reduce ATP)?
Related: You may be aware that sea otters make use of "leaky" mitochondria for warmth.
Thanks again.
What about the use of "non-traditional saunas", that don’t use steam? I have a sauna that uses far-infrared heat-Unlike conventional saunas that rely on heating the air around you, infrared saunas infrared waves that directly warms your body, similar to how the sun naturally warms your skin, far infrared has proven to be the most beneficial and safest for sauna therapy. Traditional saunas operate at extremely high temperatures between 150°F to 195+°F, making them uncomfortable for many users. In contrast, far infrared saunas deliver therapeutic benefits at much more comfortable temperatures of 100°F to 158°F. This fundamental difference creates several advantages-better heat tolerance for longer sessions, enhanced therapeutic benefits, more efficient body warming and improved breathing comfort. I’ve experienced several health benefits from this type of sauna use just in a couple of months
I have a far infrared sauna. I think it is beneficial as a source of far infrared to replace not having fire. But I do not think it will replicate the effect described here which is a function of hot air and humidity.
I have a SaunaSpace with 8 new Thermalights that replicate the Sun’s frequencies, and I sweat quickly and profusely. As soon as I open the door, I can feel the humidity escaping. So I think it’s effective.
Yes I think it can if it traps the hot air and humidity and you stay in long enough. I have a relax sauna which is far and doesn't trap the heat or humidity.
Thanks so much!
Chris can you tell us more about what you implemented for the client who had been damaged by ssri. He was clearly suffering a prolonged withdrawal syndrome. I know everyone is unique in their bottlenecks however these recoveries are so rare that more information would be incredible.
Thanks
This piece is a beast—in the best way.
Masterjohn’s weaving of genetics, temperature physiology, and nutrient biochemistry is nothing short of wild. I love how he flips the sauna narrative on its head: instead of just detox woo, it becomes a precision metabolic tool to counter thermolabile gene variants. "Sauna hard, stay cool" is such a counterintuitive protocol—it feels like biohacker folklore, but he grounds it in some solid mechanistic logic and surprising studies.
Also loved the nuance on heat shock proteins being an acute response—not the long-term fix we often assume. That’s a huge insight. And the whole section about the Saami vs. lab studies shows how most cold plunge routines are basically play-pretend compared to the real thing.
Only critique: dense as hell. You really need to want to follow the thread. But if you do? Totally worth it.
Curious what happens if someone stacks this with mitochondrial support—like CoQ10, creatine, carnitine, etc.—or experiments with cyclical copper for TYR. Lots of directions to explore.
Very relevant and helpful, thank you. Do I understand correctly (according to Ray Peat) that our enzymes can only function within a narrow temperature range? Or does this adapt too? And that a low temperature signifies hypothyroidism (or ineffectiveness of thyroid hormones on cellular receptors due to stress/RT3)?
I'm hypothyroid and just went through a winter without heat in our home. I wore wear vests, socks, and hats to avoid catching cold. Even though, when entering a public building, I feel warmer than others, I start sneezing within a couple minutes whenever I remove my hat or go without 1-2 pairs of wool socks, which tells me my heat distribution has shifted. Once an acupuncturist pulled some of the energy out of my core to help "balance" the energy, and I caught cold the next day. So much for balance!
Now that it's spring, I'm up to 2-3 pairs of wool socks and two hats and am getting sick more easily. I often shine a red light (incandescent) on my chest to heat up enough.
This article has me wondering about biohackers migrating south to warmer climates such as Yucatan and Costa Rica, Dr. Leland Stillman in Tampa, his colleague Jim Laird in Nicaragua, and Jack Kruse in El Salvador. Has this research caused you to reconsider your decision to move to Miami? If not, why not? (This is not a criticism, but I am now thinking it will be better for me to stay north rather than to spend more time in the tropics.) As usual, I love reading your findings!
1. Could hypothyroidism be an adaptation to improve MTHFR activity by lowering body temperature? (Albeit by reducing metabolism, not ideal.)
2. Any thoughts on steam shower temperature? I usually use 43°C, should I go hotter?
1. No, see the comments on the metabolic rate at the intro.
2. I doubt that's sufficient stimulus for adaptation.